Job search frustration hit my inbox today big time

Dear Karla:

I am still looking for a position in this area and having a very hard time getting any responses.

Here are some examples: I have sent my resume to XYZ Health several times, went to their jobs fair and had several interviews over last three years. No response. I have even followed up and still no response.

Same with ABC Insurance. No response.

I spoke with the HR contact at OMG and she told me there would be no openings and a day latter I get an email from Indeed that they have openings for inside sales reps. I send an email back to the company and again no response. On the company website they state that jobs of sales rep is good for recent college graduates.

UFO Foods: I sent my resume on line several times no response. I contact a Mr. Idunno, HR contact. He finally replied about two months latter and said my resume was not focus enough towards the job. I updated my resume and sent it again. No response. I sent him a follow up email again no response. The job is again posted on line.

I even had a company tell me that they have never heard of Dun & Bradstreet.

What is your opinion of assessment tests? I have yet to pass an assessment test. I am not the only one. I had friends applied and they all failed the assessment. What wrong with these companies.

What is going on with the HR Industry today? I was thinking about going to the media about this. I am also contacting government officials. to see what changes can be made to this industry. What is wrong with Northeastern PA.

What do think?
Thank you...

Frustrated Job Seeker

My answer to this job seeker:

I hear your long-term frustration. I am going to be very honest because you are asking for my opinion about what is going on. If I had contact with a lot of companies that are hiring and was continuously being turned down, I would have to look at my job search strategy, interpersonal skills, attitude and expectations.

For example, I would examine why I was thinking of going to the media and asking what's wrong with the HR industry (as if all HR people were conspiring against me).

People are getting jobs. Companies are hiring. If I were not being strongly considered then I would have no other option than to analyze:

Am I applying to jobs that match my experience? There are a lot of candidates out there, if someone is a better match in skills, experience and interview skills they'll get the job.

Is my resume getting the attention I feel it should? Maybe it needs to be redone by a professional.

Have I had an impartial critique of my phone and in person interview skills? Perhaps I'm selling myself short by doing or saying something to turn people off.

Candidates are generally spared excessive feedback - and most times it is company policy to simply say, "we have identified another candidate that more closely aligns with our requirements" or something similar. It's general and vague - but it lets the candidate know he or she is no longer being considered for the position and that's all the company needs to do. There is no requirement that each candidate be given feedback except to say "you didn't get the job" if asked, and it is only out of professional courtesy and best practices that candidates who are disqualified are informed of that decision at all.

My opinion of assessment tests is that one needs to pass them to be considered. A company can choose any legal means of judging a candidate's skills and fit as long as all candidates are provided the same process. Assessments are a common way. If I were an employer who chose to use assessments to screen candidates, and had many candidates apply, why would I choose someone who didn't pass when I have others who did?

Job seeker, there is nothing wrong with northeastern PA. Many of the HR professionals in the area didn't even attend college locally, but somewhere out of the area. I think that rather than looking at everyone else asking "what's wrong with them" I would take a personal asset inventory.

This might not be the answer I would wish to hear but it is an honest one. If you are interested in working with a coach there are a few in your area I could help you identify. You could also use the free services of PA CareerLink.

Karla

P.S. I am going to scrub your question so you are not identifiable and use it as a blog post because it is a good one.

Anyone in my HR / Recruiter network like to add anything?

Comments

Brenda / May 16, 2011 @ 7:36 PM

Karla,

Very well said. It is nice that you are in a position to givereal feedback to candidates. You are probably the first tobe completely honest with this candidate ands/he will benefit from it.Sad to say, but you hit the nail on the head – “Candidates are generally spared excessive feedback and most times it is company policy to simply say, we have identified another candidate that more closely aligns with our requirements or something similar. Its general and vague but it lets the candidate know he or she is no longer being considered for the position and thats all the company needs to do. ”

Many recruiters might have liked to explain the “why” to this candidate but can’t because they are bound by their legal department. You are a good person, Karla! NEPA is lucky to have you in the Workforce Development role. (I know this is not why you posted, just felt like saying it.)

Brenda

Karla Porter / May 16, 2011 @ 8:13 PM

Brenda – Thank you for stopping by and commenting. I feel this individual’s
anger through a few emails, what must employers perceive? I am curious how
well my feedback will go over but regardless, it needed to be said. If X
isn’t receptive to it, then thee is no more I can do. ~Karla

Brenda / May 16, 2011 @ 9:34 PM

If someone doesn’t tell X or any other X what they are doing wrong, they will never learn. There are some X’s who never get it, too! 🙂

Kimba Green / May 16, 2011 @ 7:50 PM

Karla,I have always respected your opinion and this time is no different. As you may remember I am a job seeker that is now trying to make a go of working for myself. Both are equally hard.When I decided to leave the job seeking side behind I was very frustrated. My confidence was at an all time low, I questioned my ability to bring value, and I began negative. I have never been negative but it still came out. No matter how well I thought I was hiding it. Everyday I would hear on the news that there are jobs and the unemployment rate is getting better but still no one was knocking at my door. I was doing everything the experts were telling me to do. I was also reading every blog and networking my butt off but still nothing. Frustration, stress, anger and just down right tired got to me. I am and was a product of my environment.Just this morning I was having a conversation about finding good employees. The gentleman I was talking to was saying how hard it was to find good people. I agreed and added ‘good qualified people’. He said no that was not it. He said most have an attitude or are angry or just don’t want to work. I was surprised but perhaps he is right. I know I am still carrying the baggage around with me as 20 months of unemployment wears you down! Perhaps I do feel someone owes me for all of this frustration I feel. Perhaps I am not coming across as well as I think I am.You have given us all some hard truths to think about. Job seeker or not we all need to see ourselves through another’s eyes.Packing up my suitcase of all my bad ideas!Kimba

Karla Porter / May 16, 2011 @ 8:27 PM

Kimba – You are courageous to comment these thoughts but they show how open
you are to enhancing your skills and hard truths! Recently someone told me
they are unhappy where they live so they are going to move to another state.
I offered that they should be sure to only take the suitcase and leave the
mental baggage here if they want to be truly happy. That’s easier said than
done.

Stay on your path Kimba and consider reading “You Need to be a Little
Crazy”. It’s for entrepreneurs and I think you might like it! If I can help
you with entrepreneurial resources – just let me know. ~Karla

ed han / May 16, 2011 @ 8:20 PM

Karla, both through managing my own job search process as well as volunteering with groups that support job seekers, it’s become clear that job seekers are being spared some sorely-needed feedback, and reading this reminds me that I need to be more diligent in terms of soliciting and offering precisely this.

Karla Porter / May 16, 2011 @ 8:54 PM

Ed – Company policy often gets in the way. It’s a shame it has to be that
way, but on the other hand, at one company my counterpart had a stalker – so
disengaging has its merit. There is also the thought that it is not the
company HR person’s responsibility to develop a job seeker.

Job clubs, job coaches, the career services centers at the colleges people
went to, mentors from the alumni association, etc… these are all PERFECT
people to give feedback. Thank you for volunteering your time to help get
people back to work Ed. Where is your public profile? Please post the link
here as an additional vehicle for people to locate you in your job search!

Michelle Morettini / May 16, 2011 @ 9:06 PM

Karla-assomeone who works as both a job search coach and recruiter, I have felt this frustration onboth sides of the equation and YES, sometimes we all need to hear the truth-even when it’s the hard truth. Thank you for postingthis email and your reply. Great work!

Karla Porter / May 16, 2011 @ 9:42 PM

Michelle
thanks for adding your important comment and validation to the equation. My
thought is that multiple messages echoing the same sentiments will have a
larger impact. Kind of like that snowball when it reaches the bottom of the
hill. ~Karla

Steve Levy / May 16, 2011 @ 5:14 PM

Dear Jobseeker:

Grammar. Spelling. Frustration. Rejection. Anger.

Given the dire state of our economy, the “HR industry” (it’s not an industry, it’s a profession) is stressed and stretched more than any other profession. While every profession can and should do a better job of communicating with their customers, based upon your grammar, spelling, and negative attitude, you’re going to have a very difficult time landing. Before I offer you ideas to combat “The Attack of the Bad Grammarians”, let’s try and help you see why it’s gotten this dire.

“I am still looking for a position in this area and having a very hard time getting any responses.”

Regarding XYZ Health, sending a resume
several times, attending jobs [sic] fair, having several interviews
over last three years, and still not being selected…what does that tell you? While someone should have sent you an email telling you that someone more qualified was selected, your serial applying behavior has their HR people thinking – and I’m pretty confident of this – “Not another resume! If we ignore this person, think they’ll get the picture and stop applying?” Of course this behavior isn’t compassionate; however, all the HR pros I know experience a great deal of angst at not being able to help every reasonable jobseeker. Yet their workload has increased while staffing has essentially decreased and oddly enough days are still only 24 hours long. Not an excuse jobseeker – you still deserved a response.

If your HR contact told you there would be no
openings and a day latter [sic] you received an email from Indeed that OMG had
openings for inside sales reps, don’t be angry at her. Indeed isn’t the definitive word on jobs; aggregators like Indeed will from time-to-time contain jobs that have already been filled or not exist at all. My curiosity is now piqued because you didn’t say that you called your HR contact but that you emailed in another resume. Another “Oh no not that jobseeker again!” email. You’re supposed to be a sales person; don’t you agree that a call is better than an email? Or were you just setting yourself up with another piece of information to lay the blame on someone other than yourself?

While the company website stated that the
sales rep job was good for recent college graduates, you seem to feel as if the job is not good for recent college graduates but rather for an experienced person. Perhaps the company’s strategy is to hire relatively inexperienced people and train them; that is their right…right? Not an excuse jobseeker – you still deserved a response.

At least the HR contact at UFO Foods told you your resume wasn’t focused enough; I’m guessing they meant focused towards the food or hospitality industries. You didn’t mention if you had any such experience but I’m guessing you don’t (I asked Karla; all she told was that you don’t have any experience in healthcare, food or hospitality). The company wants related experience and you weren’t able to convince them that your skills trumped their experience requirements. Not an excuse jobseeker – you still deserved a response.

There are recruiters who have never heard of ERE or Boolean search strings, and people who never heard of the NY Yankees. It’s not surprising that someone never heard of Dun & Bradstreet

As far as assessment tests, no one “passes” or “fails” one of these; they are used to rank you in terms of “success potential” relative to those who have succeeded on a particular job. The ones used to assess success as a sales reps are typically valid and reliable meaning they’re reasonably good predictors of success (and most pass legal scrutiny). Some companies use these instruments before they choose to bring someone in for an interview; others use them after the interview. It’s po-tay-toe versus po-tah-toe. There’s nothing wrong with these companies; they didn’t choose you. Not an excuse jobseeker – you still deserved a response.

Jobseeker, if you go to the media, you’ll find that your frustration is echoed around the country; as I wrote earlier, all the HR people I know are sick about not being able to employ everyone who wants a job. The Bureau of Labor Statistics indicates that statistically speaking there are 4.3 people for every job opening (far better than about one year ago when I think it was around 7:1). Then there are the people who are underemployed or partially employed; their angry too. Contact government officials if you want but what do you expect them to do? Tell XYZ, UFO, etc. to hire you? Is this the kind of change you envision them making? You’re energy is better spent asking government officials why other policies siphon money away from our shores (incidentally, I am not against offshoring; to survive our economy NEEDS to be global) or move money around to other US districts where politicians are more influential – too bad Murtha is no longer around, right?

HR isn’t to blame; you need to look inward first. Are you willing to
open yourself up and post your resume so me and my fellow HR pros can
help you? Are you willing to take constructive criticism and make
changes in yourself?

What is
wrong with NortheasternPA. Nothing jobseeker. It’s you. But it’s not an excuse jobseeker – you still deserved a response.

Patricia Fox / May 17, 2011 @ 12:15 AM

When I was a graduate student preparing to apply for a pre-doctoral internship (an extremely competitive process), my peers and I were told that our application materials had to be impeccably presented, i.e., grammar and spell-checked, complete responses to all questions, our training goals and skills a good “fit” with the internship site, etc. Most importantly, on paper, we should “sound” like someone with whom others would enjoy working. I thought this was absurd advice. Fortunately, I heeded the advice and not only got a great internship, but had the opportunity to serve on a couple of search committees while at the training site. I quickly learned the importance of selecting a person who “plays well with others.”

Karla provided great feedback for Frustrated Job Seeker (FJS). People want to be around pleasant, cooperative co-workers. If FJS “sounds” this frustrated and angry on paper, HR and others in the hiring process are likely to “hear” these negative emotions loud and clear.

Karla Porter / May 17, 2011 @ 12:52 AM

Patricia – I think this job seeker would recognize you or even possibly know you and so your professional opinion, especially considering your profession, ought to hold a lot of weight. I hope so. Great example… Thank you very much for your comments =) ~Karla

Sandra McCartt / May 17, 2011 @ 12:34 AM

Dear Frustrated,
Here is a suggestion. Instead of looking at jobs and thinking “i could do that”. Look at your resume and think about what you have done. Exactly what you have done and in which industry your have done it. Then try and think about your own resume and you as if you were another person who would be looking at it and advising you about where to look for a job. In short be your own recruiter. If you can’t objectively do that go talk to a recruiter. Ask them to look over your resume and tell you if they can help you. If not ask a recruiter to be brutally honest with you. Is it too many job changes. Are you applying for jobs that require a degree in a certain field and you don’t have a degree or feel that a degree should notbe required you are setting yourself up for rejection. It’s possible that you are not being rejected for what you are but in fact for what you are not.

If you are you own recruiter who is being paid to review resumes for a client, would you send your resume to a hospital if you had never worked in a hospital. As your own recruiter would you send your resume to an insurance company if you had never worked in the insurance industry. Think about it. As your own recruiter you shouldsend your resume to companies where your past experience and/or industry experience will mean something to that company that will cause them to put you in the stack to be reviewed because you have experience in their industry, know their products or something about the services they provide.

If you have sold D & B subscriptions then look at contacting companies who sell other types of subscriptions to the business community. You may have relationships with people who buy law updates or accounting reg updates or Chamber of Commerce memberships. If you are sending your resume to any company that has a sales opening keep in mind that anyone will pick a candidate who has experience with a product or an industry over someone who does not.

As Steve mentioned, your grammer and spelling in your email is horrible. If you have sent a cover letter that looks like your email does, it knocked you out immediately. Have someone else read over your resume and cover letter to correct and/or edit.

Quit applying over and over if you have applied online. Your resume is in the database. If you see a job listed online and know you have already applied there a nice short email that says ,”I noticed an opening posted for a (whatever), i am still available and interested in your company. Please review my resume for (whatever). If you do not hear anything assume that you are not a fit. Be sure you read the full job description and you really do have the experience that is listed. The fact that you are a quick learner or just know that you could learn the requirements listed does not make you qualified. Above all do not become the kook who applies for the same job over and over. Or become the person who applies for multiple jobs. It’s death by resume.

Going to the media throwing a fit or contacting the government will only convince somebody who might hire you that you are a loose cannon and they won’t touch you with a 10 foot pole even if they have a job that you would be considered for due to your experience.

If Karla wants to and you are in agreement you might ask her to post your resume here without your name or contact information with just position titles. I am sure many of us would make suggestions as to what type of job might be a good fit for you or changes you might make to your resume.

Karla Porter / May 17, 2011 @ 1:09 AM

Sandra – So logical, considerate and straight forward. I’m particularly fond of your efforts to break Frustrated’s compulsion to reapply incessantly to the same companies… It is important for today’s job seekers to understand that once the resume is in the database – it’s in there for all jobs, searchable by keywords and the first stop for recruiters when a new job is posted.

Frustrated is absolutely invited to allow me to post a sanitized resume and also to forward me questions, comments or other communication for you and others who took their time to show concern for this job seeker. Thank you Sandra ~Karla

Lisa / Jul 11, 2011 @ 9:45 PM

Karla, While I agree with most of the advice given, I just wanted to add that not all applicant databases are as sophisticated as described. I worked in HR for a very large Insurance company and applicants were not searchable. We requested that applicants reapply for every opening. In addition, the database was so cumbersome that it was faster for recruiters to go to Monster to search. I’ve also worked in companies where the HR staff and recruiters were not trained how to use all of the databases abilities.

Karla Porter / Jul 12, 2011 @ 1:10 AM

Lisa – I hear what you’re saying, really I do. A couple of years ago I moved to a job I like a whole lot better but it included a tremendous downgrade in technology from Kenexa and big job board accounts to nada. Personally I like to upload resumes in Google docs. It’s easily searchable. But If I were not allowed to do that I would be equally as comfortable with a printer and manila folders to file by job title or Outlook folders.

My experience is that good HR people highly treasure a good resume and we don’t lose them or for Pete’s sake, throw them away. For those of us who were around before computers or are innovate enough to work with the tools we have – we keep tabs on candidates, call them once in a while to stay in touch, talk shop and get referrals.. And we keep resumes neatly filed away with notes on them – whichever system we choose.

Honestly, I have never once in my life asked someone to reapply. Submit an updated resume yes, resubmit the same one? Never…

Thanks for stopping by, it’s important to gain a variety of perspectives!

Karla Porter / May 17, 2011 @ 12:46 AM

Steve – It is very good of you to take time to provide such thorough feedback to help this job seeker on all of the points mentioned. One clarifying comment; I know I said “pass” the assessment test and you said they are not pass or fail. Technically you are correct. Practically speaking however, wouldn’t you agree a metric is set to measure against in comparison to other successful hires? In essence there is an acceptable percentile… So, in the end….. most candidates that don’t reach the realm of desirable results… fail.

Doug Hertel / May 17, 2011 @ 2:20 AM

Karla, not surprisingly your comments, and those of the other contributors, are very valuable. I hope that “Frustrated” can benefit from all these great insights. I will add a few thoughts from the perspective of an HR professional:

1) The days of applicants getting a response to each submission are over. It’s not because the HR professionals don’t care; rather, it’s a matter of resources. Most who review applicant submissions are also neck-deep in a variety of HR issues. Candidly, issues involving current employees take precedent over following up with applicants when time is limited.

2) Assess your networking efforts and effectiveness. Perhaps by making connections you can find a great employment opportunity, rather than the other way around. A great resource on that matter? Karla Porter.

3) It’s frustrating to not get candid feedback, but that is typically not because of incompetence of the HR professional or hiring leader. As stated by others, in most circumstances that is a matter of company policy/practice. As an alternative to seeking feedback from the company who did not extend an offer, I would suggest asking someone — who is qualified and willing — to interview you in a “mock” setting. A trusted, respected HR professional would be a great choice. Set the expectation up front that he/she is to provide you feedback on your resume, your appearance, your answers, your preparedness, your body language, your diction, your vocabulary………you get the picture. Set the expectation for that person to be particularly honest with you. You don’t want someone to tell you that everything is great, because I think you know that not everything is great. Then, buy them a nice bottle of wine afterward to show your appreciation. I have found that HR people like wine, particularly after a day dealing with “HR drama.” It’s a very rewarding profession, but it can be challenging at times!

Doug

Karla Porter / May 17, 2011 @ 3:16 AM

Doug – Great perspective that I hope Frustrated takes into serious
consideration. Especially the parts about current employees taking precedent
over following up with applicants when time is limited – and it generally
is, and wine. I couldn’t agree more. Thanks for stopping by to provide
winning insight. ~Karla

Steve Levy / May 16, 2011 @ 10:25 PM

Dear Jobseeker:

Grammar. Spelling. Frustration. Rejection. Anger.

“I am still looking for a position in this area and having a very hard time getting any responses.”

Regarding XYZ Health, sending a resume several times, attending jobs [sic] fair, having several interviews over last three years, and still not being selected…what does that tell you? While someone should have sent you an email telling you that someone more qualified was selected, your serial applying behavior has their HR people thinking – and I’m pretty confident of this – “Not another resume! If we ignore this person, think they’ll get the picture and stop applying?” Of course this behavior isn’t compassionate; however, all the HR pros I know experience a great deal of angst at not being able to help every reasonable jobseeker. Yet their workload has increased while staffing has essentially decreased and oddly enough days are still only 24 hours long. Not an excuse jobseeker – you still deserved a response.

If your HR contact told you there would be no openings and a day latter [sic] you received an email from Indeed that OMG had openings for inside sales reps, don’t be angry at her. Indeed isn’t the definitive word on jobs; aggregators like Indeed will from time-to-time contain jobs that have already been filled or not exist at all. My curiosity is now piqued because you didn’t say that you called your HR contact but that you emailed in another resume. Another “Oh no not that jobseeker again!” email. You’re supposed to be a sales person; don’t you agree that a call is better than an email? Or were you just setting yourself up with another piece of information to lay the blame on someone other than yourself?

While the company website stated that the sales rep job was good for recent college graduates, you seem to feel as if the job is not good for recent college graduates but rather for an experienced person. Perhaps the company’s strategy is to hire relatively inexperienced people and train them; that is their right…right? Not an excuse jobseeker – you still deserved a response.

There are recruiters who have never heard of ERE or Boolean search strings, and people who never heard of the NY Yankees. It’s not surprising that someone never heard of Dun & Bradstreet.

As far as assessment tests, no one “passes” or “fails” one of these; they are used to rank you in terms of “success potential” relative to those who have succeeded on a particular job. The ones used to assess success as a sales rep are typically valid and reliable meaning they’re reasonably good predictors of success (and most pass legal scrutiny). Some companies use these instruments before they choose to bring someone in for an interview; others use them after the interview. It’s po-tay-toe versus po-tah-toe. There’s nothing wrong with these companies; they didn’t choose you. Not an excuse jobseeker – you still deserved a response.

Jobseeker, if you go to the media, you’ll find that your frustration is echoed around the country; as I wrote earlier, all the HR people I know are sick about not being able to employ everyone who wants a job. The Bureau of Labor Statistics indicates that statistically speaking there are 4.3 people for every job opening (far better than about one year ago when I think it was around 7:1). Then there are the people who are underemployed or partially employed; they’re angry too. Contact government officials if you want but what do you expect them to do? Tell XYZ, UFO, etc. to hire you? Is this the kind of change you envision them making? You’re energy is better spent asking government officials why other policies siphon money away from our shores (incidentally, I am not against offshoring; to survive our economy NEEDS to be global) or move money around to other US districts where politicians are more influential – too bad John Murtha is no longer around, right?

HR isn’t to blame; you need to look inward first. Are you willing to open yourself up and post your resume so me and my fellow HR pros can help you? Are you willing to take constructive criticism and make changes in yourself?

What is wrong with Northeastern PA. Nothing jobseeker. It’s you. But it’s not an excuse jobseeker – you still deserved a response.

Brenda / May 16, 2011 @ 11:01 PM

Karla,

One thing’s for sure – you can count on Dr. Steve “tell it like it is” Levy to give you the whole picture. There are about 10 subjects in this blog that one could write full new blogs about.But, the bottom line? You andSteve are both in good positions to tell job seekers how it really is and you’ve done a great job at it 🙂

Brenda

Karla Porter / May 16, 2011 @ 11:45 PM

No Kidding B. Steve lays it down. What the job seeker should realize is that there is real help here – if one chooses to accept. – K

Karla Porter / May 17, 2011 @ 1:11 AM

As bizarre will have it – I deleted this duplicate post, yet here it is… Where is my webmaster guru when I need him???

Karla Porter / May 20, 2011 @ 10:46 AM

Job seekers – Here is a must read from Hannah Morgan on the Career Sherpa site asking the hard question, have you really left no stone unturned? http://careersherpa.net/leave-no-stone-unturned

Karen Siwak / May 20, 2011 @ 1:22 PM

Excellent advice as always, Karla. Aside from using job search tactics that are counterproductive, I suspect that Frustrated may be suffering “caustic creep”, where anger, bitterness, cynicism creeps into your view of life. It’s insidious. People can ‘read’ it from miles away, and if you have a chance to watch a networking event in action, you will literally see people cut a wide birth in order to avoid coming into contact with this field of energy. It isn’t unusual to see a ‘ain’t it awful pity party’ develop, made up of people who suffer the same syndrome. Sarcasm abounds. It takes a deliberate and concerted effort to tackle this, a daily ritual of checking in and turning down the dial. Because I can tell you that, even if I created the most fabulous, attention-grabbing resume for a candidate with ‘caustic creep’, that attitude will stop your network of contacts from referring you, it will stop HR staff from returning your calls and emails, it will stop people at job fairs from taking notice of you except in a “don’t like” kind of way. And none of them may be able to say exactly why.

Karla Porter / May 20, 2011 @ 1:46 PM

Holy crow Karen, talk about hitting nails on their heads – caustic
like battery acid. It’ll eat holes right through that resume! TY for
stopping by with your wisdom – K

Brian Cormack Carr / May 20, 2011 @ 2:36 PM

Ouch! Some hard messages in here – but necessary. It’s hard to face rejection in a job search, but it doesn’t take away the necessity of exercising ownership over your own job search. If you’re not getting through – there are reasons, and there are ways round those reasons.

I think so many people are “stuck” using the traditional methods; I try to encourage clients to look at more creative ways, such as “back-door networking” – but it’s a hard sell for some people, who are still fixed on the old models.

Karla Porter / May 21, 2011 @ 7:49 PM

Brian – Everything you said is true. And while many would benefit from adapting to newer job search methods, others already have but could use anger management and self-awareness work =) Thanks for your seasoned insight ~Karla

Martin Yate cpc / May 23, 2011 @ 2:32 PM

Hi Karla,

Like your blog, good, practical advice! If you are in Linkedin
send me an invitation to connect

All the best

Martin Yate CPC34 Years in career management,NY Times bestseller, 62 foreign language editions*****Knock em Dead Secrets & Strategies for Success in an Uncertain WorldKnock em Dead 2011, The Ultimate Job Search GuideKnock em Dead ResumesKnock em Dead Cover LettersPlus 10 others*****Keep in touch!

Karla Porter / May 23, 2011 @ 7:03 PM

Martin – Seriously, your marketing peeps should sharpen their skills! I have a LinkedIn button on the top of the page here, whoever is reading this can take advantage of the tip. I do have a copy of the book – soon as I read it I’ll let you know what I think! ~Karla

Anonymous / Jun 22, 2011 @ 3:25 PM

The problem is that you never find out what anyone really thinks. I believe in my case it is age. You cannot tell me I am underqualified or overqualified for most of the positions I apply for. I avoid corporate america (I also refuse to buy anything from them too and will spend every waking minute trying to convince others to just stop feeding into them). You can do all the right things but when you are competing against 2000 applicants you will never be number one.

Karla Porter / Jun 22, 2011 @ 4:43 PM

Pigbitinmad – See, for example, a negative user ID like pigbitinmad can be hazardous to your personal brand. As a recruiter, if I ran across you as a job seeker, that would stand out to me. I would say to my self, huh, this person has anger issues.. Could be right, could be wrong – but that’s what you make me think in the moment, and I would move on to the next person.

Age…. It’s a common comment I hear. As more people get to be ‘our’ age (don’t let my pic fool you, I use a lot of moisturizer) Honestly, it’s rarely an issue. Most of the workforce is indeed 50+. They have the experience employers look for, ‘old fashioned’ work ethic and lack the Gen Y sense of ‘entitlement’. The average tenure of today’s workforce on the job is 36 months. So, unless you are at retirement age employers won’t think twice about getting that amount of time out of you. I just placed a 64 year old (who retired but found out it was boring) last week and I know a 73 year old who was hired 2 weeks ago.

It’s not about ‘age’ per se… it is about having currently needed skills, a solid grasp on today’s workplace technology, a resume that is not a hundred pages long that lists every activity since the Vietnam war… understanding how to filter many years worth of valuable experience into a succinct document that highlights what you bring to the table. It’s about marketing yourself – something older workers didn’t used to have to do. Seriously, it is not age. It is about being seasoned yet fresh and not stale.

Surely you are exaggerating.. 2000 applicants? I have seen 200 but would it go into the thousands unless you were applying for American Idol. Even if there were, someone gets hired, someone is #1. Obviously, that person has the right experience, right presentation and yes, does the right things.

I appreciate your reading and taking the time to leave a comment. My feeling is that perhaps you have a chip on your shoulder that you need removed.. You will get a lot further.

Anonymous / Jun 22, 2011 @ 6:38 PM

And what makes you think I would use this moniker in a job search?I have different email addresses for everything.You don’t even understand why it is kinda funny because it is a tagline used by Ed Anger of the Weekly World News. Anyway, you all sound like you have no sense of humor whatsoever, which is why, I don’t use my name if I plan on being honest. And to the other poster who slammed me….I don’t do things the same way I did them 15 years ago. And I believe I have kept up with technology and am actually more computer literate than a lot of 20 year olds (most in fact). However, when people know your age from searching you on sites like Pipl and Intelius, you are not going to get any interviews. I can only hope something unspeakably bad happens to you.

Sandra McCartt / Jun 22, 2011 @ 6:56 PM

Let me claify. I was referring not to you doing things the way you did them 15 years ago as you being out of date. I was referring to your job responsibilities of 15 years ago. I would assume that you have progressed past the level where you were 15 years ago in terms of expertise and ability being far above a person with only 2 to 4 years experience.

However, the assumption was that you were upset and asking for advice. You leave no question that it is not about age but about attitude. I am sorry that you are so angry. That kind of anger is very self destructive. I wish you success in something so your hopes and dreams take on a more positive tone.

Karla Porter / Jun 23, 2011 @ 12:33 AM

Hi Sandra – Thanks for stopping by today and for the time you took to comment to try to help another reader. I think there are a lot of people who don’t realize how they come across in their communication. If we could pick it up in one written paragraph I can’t imagine how it comes across in a phone screen or face to face interview… The more competitive jobs get, the more certain candidates will have greater difficulty being selected to solve a company’s headaches. Those same individuals will continue to see the rest of the world as incompetent. Sad.

Karla Porter / Jun 23, 2011 @ 12:20 AM

“I can only hope something unspeakably bad happens to you” – Another fine example of your humor?

What you don’t seem to get is that you have stopped by a blog where the people who contribute advice are my highly regarded peers. We aren’t here to waste anyone’s time, we help because we like to and because we know how to, without any agenda. Most people are happy to have advice from professionals who know what they’re talking about.. I remain steadfast in my appraisal… I believe your situation is a matter of attitude.

Sandra McCartt / Jun 22, 2011 @ 5:47 PM

Dear Pig Biter,
It must take up a lot of productive job seeking time to spend every waking minute trying to convince others to quit buying things from corporate America. If you are wearing your age like the poster child for an EEOC complaint perhaps employers are looking at you as a disaster looking for a place to happen. If you are applying for jobs where the ad says 2 to 4 years of experience and being told you are overqualified you in fact are overqualified. Most of the time employers don’t put that in an ad as a reason to reject more experienced people. They put it there due to what they feel is the level of responsibility. They are not looking for someone who can do the job in their sleep because they did the same thing 15 years ago and have long since passed that level.

Employers will always put their “perfect wish list” in a job ad. If they get most or all of those criteria and you have half of them you would in fact be underqualified by their standards.

It is still very much a buyers market so the best thing to do is be a product that someone wants to buy instead of wasting your time trying to convince others not to buy something. That makes you come off like an old sorehead with an axe to grind. Who would want to hire an old sorehead. If you are posting any of that rant on the net as you have here and you use the same screen name or post any identifying info it is a simple search to let someone know that you are a bitter pain in the butt. Would you hire someone like that if you owned a business?

Yes, it is frustrating right now but so is business and so is almost every job at sometime or another. Your job as i see it right now is looking for a job so try and approach your frustration the same way you would if someone were paying youto doit. Take a step back, think about how to sell yourself and keep selling. Someone will buy what you are selling if it looks like a good product. Unless of course someone is spending every waking moment convincing others not to buy what you have to sell. Think about it.

brad2250 / Jun 8, 2012 @ 8:08 PM

I don’t think people on here aregiving frustrated job seeker the best advice. So, I am going to try to give some input from mywork and job search history. A little on my background, I am a Masters degree accountant who has taken jobs I am overqualified for, gotten jobs I was underqualified for, gotten jobs very soon after losing a job, and went many months before getting a job after losing a job.

Let’s be straightforward and blunt, human resourse professionals are not at the top of the intellienge ladder and tend to be young woman who have an upbeat, very positive and friendly attitude, but are not always tough and “battle-tested.” In general, if they were more intelliegent they would havegotten into amore technical field such as accounting, engineering, strategic or operational management. Most of the advice offered is the typical corporate politcally correct respone, and does not give frustrated job seeker any benefit of the doubt. Some people think or try to act like current Human Resources methods or philosophies are somesort of scientific therom that’s proven to be 100% correct and true, but it’s really far from it. Really in a better more knowledgeable world,their should be a website or database somewhere thatlets employers know where you worked, what you made, why you left,your accomplishments, work personality, etc so all these questions and assessments were not necessary.

The best advice would be tominimize or entirely bypass human resources and go straight to a hiring manager. Human resources job is to eliminate candidates, so the hiring manager has fewer to inverview. HR does this by weeding out candidates who have negatives based on their belief system, such as multiple jobs in a short period of time, firings, long unemployment period, poor college GPA, etc. A cover letter or a good detailed answer in a interview (probably will be a phone interview) can help limit them eliminating your candidacy.

At 25 years old, I got a job paying $35 an hour, but then a couple years later I went months without getting a job asking only for half as much!

You should have multiple resumes. Don’t include your home address on the resume if you are applying for a job out of city — say 1/2 an hour to 1 hour away. If your going for something your overqualifed for — “dress down” your resume — such as discluding a masters degree or changing job titles from say Staff Accountant to Bookeeper or Financial analyst to Financial clerk. If your underqualified, dojust the opposite and “dress up” your resume Detail your experience most related to the job near the top of the resume and include your other experience below it. Try to incorporate a section on your resume including your accomplishments and community service.

In closing, frustrated job seeker I say to you that you have a right to be frustrated, but you should not let the frustration hinder your efforts or consume you to the point of being bitter. HR methods are what they are, which is somewhat conservative and negative-based approach over positive based approach — for example, were you fired or have a long unemployment period over do you have a high GPA, accomplishments, or promotions receieved. You need to tailer your resume and cover letter to each position. Finally, you should try to apply in a more personalby manner, for example sending a resume to an e-mail address from your e-mail or to a person via traditonal mail over applying through a website such a monster or careerbuilder.

P.S. I had to write this fast inbetween other tasks, so I don’t want any smart guys to try to critique my spelling or grammer, it’s a blog nothing formal.

karlaporter / Jun 11, 2012 @ 11:42 PM

@brad2250I appreciate the thoughtful comments. It’s unfortunate you have chosen to be employed by companies that hire unseasoned, non-battle tested, less intelligent than you type individuals to manage the human resources department. Please note that the field of human resources has several sub-domains such as recruitment, employee relations, benefits administration, organizational development, training, etc. It appears you have run into entry level HR Admin more often than career professionals and also that you think we are just a bunch of young air-headednubiles decorating the office space. Perhaps the largest most generalized misnomer about human resources is that the department exists to ‘help people’. While everyone’s job within an organization is to assist others, human resources exists largely to help protect the organization from liability and work in close concert with the CE0 to ensure the optimization of human capital. If something is amiss in the HR department I would seriously question theeffectivenessof the C-Suite.

On the other hand, you do have some useful experiential advice for job seekers. Thanks for the visit.

Job search frustration hit my inbox today big time

May 16, 2011 / 39 comments

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